The DHC Podcast
Ever wondered what it’s like to be truly involved in sports? Wonder no more!
On this podcast, I’ll sit down with players, GMs, owners, and passionate fans like you to uncover how they fell in love with sports. We’ll dive into their unique journeys, explore the business side of the game, and discuss the endless possibilities that the sport offers.
From behind-the-scenes stories to deep conversations about the sport, I’m here to explore it all—while having a ton of fun along the way!
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The DHC Podcast
Beyond the Game: Minor League Culture Through Ben's Eyes
Benjamin Hill reflects on his unexpected 20-year journey chronicling minor league baseball's unique culture, business, and fan experiences. His career path from temp jobs to becoming baseball's preeminent voice on minor league culture demonstrates the surprising ways passion can turn into profession.
• Started in 2005 through a recommendation from ball hawk Zach Hample, whom he met on Craigslist
• Created his own beat covering "the business and culture of minor league baseball" when no such position existed
• Witnessed the evolution of team names from traditional to outlandish (El Paso Chihuahuas, Hartford Yard Goats, Rocket City Trash Pandas)
• Conducts regular road trips to document minor league ballparks, developing his "designated eater" concept after being diagnosed with celiac disease
• Shares nostalgic memories of defunct teams like the Bakersfield Blaze and Jamestown Jammers
• Uses baseball as a "contextualizer" to explore cities across America that might otherwise be overlooked
• Observed the evolution of ballpark food from basic concessions to creative regional specialties
• Collects minor league t-shirts for his four-year-old son with plans to eventually make them into a quilt
You can find Ben Hill on Twitter/X @Ben's Biz, Instagram @TheBen'sBiz, through his newsletter "The Baseball Traveler," and on the "Before the Show" podcast.
Make sure to follow the Dad Hat Chronicles: https://linktr.ee/TheDadHatChronicles
and people, so it's new to me.
Speaker 2:I'm going to send you this link, by the way, just so that way you'll have it Val, so forever it'll be you yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean literally. I feel like there's a couple of people who inspire me and I have to say it's you and Andrew Zimmern. You guys are like I don't know, chef Andrew Zimmern. He inspires me through like the food, but like when I read your stuff and English was my worst English in history, I hate spelling, I hate big words, but when I read your stuff I know what it means and it helps me become better. When I, when I speak, I feel my heart.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I'm glad to hear that and I think you're doing great work yourself. I mean, you got a lot of passion and commitment and just positive energy and it seems to be going well.
Speaker 3:Thanks.
Speaker 2:You feel better, now I do.
Speaker 3:I just can't believe that, like I'm talking to Benjamin Hill, like I'm always talking about Benjamin Hill, and now I'm talking to, like, what a shift she's not kidding about that, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:Hey, it's good for my ego. I spend most of the day being like, oh, I'm still doing this and you know, in a larger company structure that doesn't really care that much what I do, so it's nice to it's nice to be reminded that you do make an impact on a lot of us.
Speaker 2:My friend, you do, you do, just so you know, All right, all right, all right. Well, welcome everybody to yet another episode of the Data Chronicles. My name is Ed With me. I got my good friend, my co-host, val Stadium Food Girl. What's going on, my girl?
Speaker 3:I'm so excited right now.
Speaker 2:You guys have to. This is too funny. I'm going to put this on the video because this is good, because she is geeking out right now over our guest, and you know, our guest today is the one and only Ben Hill. How are you doing today, my friend?
Speaker 1:Doing all right, you know, gearing up for another season, as one does in March, that's, you know, we're in the rhythms of baseball here. I love it.
Speaker 2:I love it and actually at the time of this recording, which is the 3rd of March, we were just starting discussion that where the AAA championship is going to take place. So we'll tell you a little story about that later, how I was supposed to be there and never went because of Hurricane Helene. So thanks, hurricane Helene for that.
Speaker 3:And how I met Tyler Mon and it was so cool.
Speaker 1:Exactly, Tyler. Hopefully he'll be back on the call in 2025. But on March 3rd, seeing a press release for a game, a minor league game, taking place September 27th, that feels like it might as well be like a decade from now. It feels so long away. But then what happens is the season starts and all of a sudden you're like oh, my goodness, I can't believe we're already here. It's that that weird tension between it the season feeling so long and so short at the same time um, then you know I want to get to.
Speaker 2:I want to start the the podcast by just getting to know a little bit about you, um, and, and then how you got to be where you're at right. Um, excuse me, I apologize. One of the things is like we've always wondered, like you know, how does like one get into working for? Well now, major league, major League Baseball, but Minor League Baseball, how did you get started in that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I can tell the very short version, the very long version. I guess I'll go for something in between. But yeah, whenever I try to tell a story it's kind of convoluted and what it comes down to is my job, which I've come to define as covering the business and culture of minor league baseball. Is not something that ever existed before I started doing it and nor did I have some master plan going in to create that. Yeah, I graduated from college with a communications degree, went to the University of Pittsburgh, didn't really know what I was doing with my life, worked in education for a number of years. Through a convoluted set of circumstances which is another story I got an opportunity to move to New York. Then I was in my 20s, trying to figure out what to do in New York, kept doing education for a while, started temping after I decided I didn't want to work in education.
Speaker 1:So, long story short, I'm a guy in my mid-20s just trying to find something that'll stick, trying to justify my existence, trying to get by in New York City. So I was saying yes to any opportunity that came my way and I was working a lot of temp jobs, random one-off gigs and I got a call from a friend of mine saying hey, I'm writing game recaps for a new minor league baseball website. They need more people. You seem like you could be a good writer. I know you love baseball, so do you want to do it? And so I just said sure. And they just hired me on the spot because there had never been a website before that was covering just minor league baseball. No one really knew what they were doing. I had my friend's recommendation who side note, that friend was Zach Hample, who I'd met on Craigslist you know kind of pre-social media era because he posted looking for someone to play baseball with. I didn't, he didn't put his name on that post, I didn't know who it was, but turned out to be Zach Hample. So that's a weird kind of side note with my whole job is that I literally got this job in 2005 through a recommendation from, you know famous ball hawk Zach Campbell, who I had met on Craigslist. I mean, that's really how I got my job. But yeah, I thought I'd just do it for a couple of months and the season would end and they'd send us home. But they didn't send us home.
Speaker 1:Then I started coming in during the day because I didn't understand why we were working at night with no games. Then I was the only writer during the day and I started getting assigned stories where I started to learn a bit more about the other side of minor league baseball, like new team names and that kind of stuff. And then the next season I was like the daytime game recap writer and I got asked to write a promo column. And that's where it all started, really. I got to write a weekly column of like 10 things happening in minor league baseball and I just was immediately drawn to it because there were teams are doing so many ridiculous things.
Speaker 1:As a writer instead of just writing game recaps, which don't allow for much flair humor, I could make jokes about what was going on pop culture references, that kind of thing. And then I learned that the teams were reading what I was doing because, unbeknownst to me, who was just trying to get a paycheck and work some jokes into my writing? Um, no one had ever really done what I was doing like following, covering what teams are doing in real time. So people in the industry started to read it because they wanted to know what other teams were doing, you know, throughout the season and then the sort of the interest of the industry kind of gave me I definitely wouldn't say clout, but a little momentum or leverage, as I kept going, knowing that the teams themselves, you know, liked what I was doing. So then it was kind of more justified.
Speaker 1:So I spun my wheels, kept trying to build it up, start a blog, you know, still part-time for a lot of years, finally got full-time around the age of 30. And then after that I was like, well, this is okay, this is actually going to be my job. I should try to visit these places, because I can't be this expert on a nationwide industry without having been to these places. And so I started doing road trips in 2010. And then one thing led to another and I just kept doing that and kind of established this job as the guy who covers the business and culture of minor league baseball the fans, the food, the promotions, the history, pretty much everything but the game itself, even though of course I love baseball.
Speaker 2:But I leave the actual game coverage to my colleagues when you first started doing the road trips and all that was this all on your dime, like you were just like I'm gonna go, and then in the very, very beginning.
Speaker 1:A lot of it was when I was still part time and saying like I need to make something happen here, because, you know, I was young compared to how old I am now. But I did not feel young at the time. You know, I was in my late 20s at this point. I went through some breakups, I was in a pretty precarious position, so I was just like I have to make this happen, whether it's through this employment or something else. So some of my first trips were just things I did locally or local-ish around the New York City area that I just did on my own. But the actual trips when I say 2010, that's when I was able to get a little of a road trip budget, to do it in conjunction with becoming full-time and, you know, covering all of minor league baseball is my beat.
Speaker 3:Obviously, you have been to a lot of cities and I have not been to a lot of cities yet. I just picture them when I'm listening to. You know, the podcast and stuff Are there. Do you have maybe even three cities that you have been to and you're just like I can't stop thinking about these cities, and maybe there's cities that I haven't been to yet, but then I now I have that to look forward to.
Speaker 1:There's so many, it kind of blurs and often I don't get enough of a chance to explore a city as I would really like. But yeah, I always looked at it as like yeah, I've been living in New York City now for over 22 years, so I'd often go on these road trips and just be in a city for a day or two and love it. But I always looked at it as like I was flirting with that other city. But my long-term relationship was always back. New york city was always like get home, come on we need to get a whole right now, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I always looked at it. That is like little flirtation, so maybe superficial, um, so I could just name so many that in a small amount of time just made me think like this place is is awesome. I mean I think, uh, dur, durham and the greater Durham era, not to mention the Durham Bulls, but that seemed like a lot of culture and art and history around there, and not to mention a ton of baseball and the way you can move between urban and more rural areas in not too much a time. It seemed like a real diversity of experience, not just in terms of the population but in terms of the landscape and the way people live.
Speaker 1:I like places like that. I like the kind of cities that have a reputation for weirder people living there. Eugene is kind of a great countercultural city with some interesting history that I like visiting places like that, their history with the hippies of the 60s and all the countercultural protests and drug usage that took place out there. El Paso, I thought was great because you know, growing up in the Northeast I'd never really had a real sense of what like a border city was like and I was just blown away in a way that almost seems a little naive or childlike. I was just like I can't believe it. That's, that's mexico, right there.
Speaker 1:That's right there yeah and and it just having that then come to life, that realization of like that's what it's like. I mean, I knew that was what it was like, but just seeing the the divide between the two countries and juarez right there and one one of the times I visited, walking to Mexico and back just in the span of a night, it was just like a cool thing to do. And similarly, vancouver, I mean, if you want to go in the other direction, I love visiting that. What a beautiful city and, you know, the only city that's out of the United States and minor league baseball. So you know, rare opportunity to use my passport, which I always enjoy. But yeah, questions like that I could just riff going a million directions, but those are a few that came to mind.
Speaker 3:I have two takeaways from that. One real quick. El Paso, you chose one of my best friends as your designated eater and he said it was one of the greatest experiences ever. And he was like I have a Benjamin Hill t-shirt and I was like I don't want to talk about it, but I don't know. If you remember him, His name is Chuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I remember Chuck, and yeah, he's got a daughter at least one daughter, I remember.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and yeah, really nice guy.
Speaker 3:An episode that you did with a team and you were talking about this city. And now this city is so high up on my bucket list and I don't know if it's on a lot of people's bucket list, but for me it's like I'm always looking at flights, specifically the Wisconsin Timber Rattlers. I remember an episode that you did and you were interviewing the CMO. I remember an episode that you did and you were interviewing the CMO and then you were talking about I think it was like you were doing this either before the game or after the game you went to downtown and I think you were at a cheese curd shop and I'm not kidding, when you were talking about this cheese curd shop I was just like I cannot wait because I love Wisconsin and just the way you were talking about it. I was just this stadium and this city has to be up so high on my bucket list. Forget Miami, forget. I don't want to say New York, but Miami.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say don't do that now, Don't offend the guy's place.
Speaker 1:No, no, but that's what the minor leagues is all about. Like you know, kind of forget New York, forget Miami, forget Los Angeles. League is all about, like you know, kind of forget new york, forget miami, forget los angeles and the small towns and go to places that you wouldn't ordinarily get to go. And that's been a big, you know kind of thesis statement for me through the years is, um, that minor league baseball or you know, not just the minor leagues but minor league baseball is is a great contextualizer to give you the motivation to go to places that you ordinarily wouldn't go. Like you know, you wouldn't just think to go on vacation to Appleton, wisconsin, but then, once you're there, you know, just to use, you know, val's example.
Speaker 1:Once you're there you're like, okay, this is a fun place to be. Um, you know, I remember I went to a Harry Houdini Museum there because Houdini, you know, the great magician, lived there for a while. Yes, obviously a lot of cheer, a lot of cheese. You know the great magician lived there for a while. Yes, obviously a lot of cheer, a lot of cheese. You know, really nice little downtown near a college with. You know, I love pinball. I remember playing a pinball bar at a pinball bar in appleton and so on and so forth is like literally every single place has much to recommend about it. And you know, I've always kind of I don't want to say offended, but a lot of times when I'm I tell people my itineraries and they'll pick up on a spot and be like, oh, good luck there.
Speaker 3:And I'm kind of like, well, I don't have to go live there and there's people who do you just got to go visit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so why wouldn't I be happy to visit there and why wouldn't I want to come away with a positive impression?
Speaker 1:I don't ever want to act blind to what you know, the negative aspects of a certain area, but doing this sort of job, it's about celebrating the positive and there's positivity about everywhere and to sound very corny about it, I just like people and I like the American people and I just feel, everywhere I go, I like everybody and I know, yes, I'm doing a job. That's easy to be liked and to like others because it's through baseball, it's a fun thing but it just helps a lot. You know when people are online too much and you know so, tied up in the division, going on, you know politically and socially, and not to say that's not a real thing, but I think, just going out to live events of course, minor league baseball, but just live events in general you just feel like man, this, this reality on the ground, doesn't really match in a lot of cases what we think to be the reality. Day in and day out, only learning about the worst things and pitting against, pitting groups against one another.
Speaker 2:I just like to be out in america and feel good about everybody let me ask you uh, you know, obviously you, you get to travel, you get to do all this fun stuff and all that. But like my question to you is uh is, obviously you start, you know the end of the season starts and like you start to plan out where you're gonna go, and all that, like I mean, that takes a lot of work. So, like, what is your, what's your process on on where you want to go each year? Uh, so that way you're like all right. So here's, here's your, here's the minor league systems that I'm gonna go to this year. How do you go through all that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a big plan for this week and especially really starting tomorrow, and kind of have a planning session with my co-worker, josh, on Wednesday. And yeah, I'm trying to figure that out right now. It is one of the most frustrating things I do every year. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's in the service, it's something I greatly enjoy. It's still frustrating.
Speaker 1:It's very frustrating to make those itineraries, I mean, and now that I'm older and do my job a little differently than I used to in certain ways, and now I have a kid my son just turned four it's harder to do things the way I used to because I was single for most of Like when I first started the road trips and for a lot of years I was for the most part single and I made it so much easier just to like, just to not worry about larger like. Oh, I can't do it this day, I can't do it this day. So between family stuff and, you know, his childcare and then just home road schedules drive me crazy. You look at a region that you want to hit and you think you have an itinerary and then, like, you just can't quite line up the home and the road and the six games. The six game homestands now make that a little more difficult because you can't like just kind of mix and match with three game sets and home and road changing a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so where I decide to go, I mean there's different variables every year, but the main thing is, you know, I try to visit places I haven't been before. So this year, after a couple of years with no new ballparks, you know we've got four new ballparks coming up in 2025. So my trips will be centered around the new ballparks and then places I can get to in the immediate or not immediate, but in the general range of those new ballparks. So probably at least three of the trips I do this year will be based around those four ballparks. I think one of the trips I can get two new ballparks in, but whatever, that's how it'll be. But, um, you know, salt Lake's a bit of a tough one. Just that's a pretty isolated area as minor league baseball goes.
Speaker 1:But you know, looking to get to Salt Lake, looking to get to Knoxville, looking to get to Spartanburg and looking to get to Columbus, georgia, so, um, I imagine those four will be at least three trips in and of themselves, and then the other one. I'll just try to pick a region that I haven't been to for a long time, or if there's some particular promotion that a team is doing that I just feel this can't miss. Maybe something like that. But for a lot of my road trips it's not about a specific promotion, it's just about capturing a team at a moment in time and not so much about like I have to go when they do this crazy thing, you know. So we'll see. Hopefully in a week's time I have a much more concrete, or at least concrete. Yeah, cause I need to get this nailed down so I can just plan the rest of my life all the way into September. Yeah, cause then little things come up People be like.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's this concert on August 23rd and I'll be like, I don't know, I just need to have these trips locked in sooner than later. So I'll probably do, and I do less than I used to now for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but I'll probably do one trip a month, probably in May, june, july and August, and then maybe some excuse me Something small in between. Yeah, maybe smaller local stuff as.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 3:That is so great that Salt Lake is probably on your radar this year, because it's also on mine.
Speaker 1:Oh nice, nice, Maybe we can cross paths.
Speaker 2:Maybe you'll be a designated eater, you know, if you do make it I mean you're free.
Speaker 3:I'd love to be your designated eater and I can tell you why in just a few sentences, why I would be a great pick.
Speaker 1:Well, I pretty much already know why you'd be a great pick. Well, I pretty much already know why you'd be a great pick. I've seen your stuff.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm just gonna think that's pretty simple yeah, I mean you know me being older, um, and coming at this from more of a writing first perspective, like I struggle sometimes with like the Instagram and the videos and I'm working on it and getting a little better. But, like Val, I see your stuff and I'm like man. I got to incorporate more of that kind of stuff, like uh to the food stuff, uh, the designated eater stuff. I do Cause it's uh yeah, there's just so much I'm trying to capture in one night and it's it's hard to give everything it's due and sometimes you know, I see stuff you do and I'm like man. I wish I had the skill and time to really dive in a little bit more, as opposed to just like one or two 20-second videos of someone just biting a cheeseburger.
Speaker 3:I will send you all the tips.
Speaker 2:Oh, be careful what you wish for. You'll write a whole book on Taylor. Honestly, though, she has helped me a lot into my development on my YouTube channel and on and and Instagram, just because of the tips she has given me.
Speaker 3:So I'm still waiting, but I will send you all the tips.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I need, I need some. It's been ramping up the last couple of years and there's been times now that I'm you know, I'm joined on the road by what we call an MLB LCC, a live content coordinator. So on certain trips, you know like I have a little outside help and so for video stuff, which is helpful. But yeah, when it's just me and a phone and 10 other things on my checklist, it can be hard to do as detailed as I would like to. But yeah, having a designated eater, that's been one of the great joys of my career. Just all the people I've met through that concept of just having people eat for me at a minor league baseball game.
Speaker 2:I'm sure that designated eaters they hate it every step of the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, it's kind of like yeah, I mean kind of like what I was saying when this call started. I'm usually in my own head and feeling like you know, I don't know, here I go, is this worthwhile?
Speaker 1:But then designated eaters who are like this is on my bucket list and I'm like, what Like? Because it's hard for me to look at what I do with the level of importance that sometimes other people look at it. So it's good to get myself out of my own head and be like, yeah, this does have value. My own head, and be like, yeah, this does have value, because a crazy thing is that I'm going to be 20, July will be my 20th anniversary from when I was hired part-time and I just can't believe I'm still doing this. It just never seemed like it would be my whole career. And now I'm fully in middle age and in my forties and I'm like well, no, dude, this is your career.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not a part-time job. This is your full on, this is your career. Yeah, that's not a part-time job. This is your full-on, this is your career here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it took me a long time to really realize that and accept it. For so long it just felt like something that kind of happened until the next thing. And then I realized like no, this is the thing, man.
Speaker 3:And I have to say, like, when I say it's life-changing, it really, like you just said, you don't realize that it's bucket list things for other people. But like, for example, okay, so not to put him on the spot, but my fiance is not a minor league fan, boo, it sucks. Well, he's learning now. But because we put on those show before the show podcasts on these road trips and I know he acts like he's not listening, but then he'll hear these team names and these cities and these things. And then then I know he acts like he's not listening, but then he'll hear these team names and these cities and these things. And then I catch him like I was looking at plane tickets to the Iowa Cubs and I'm like, oh, so you know who the Iowa Cubs are now, and so it's just. It is like, even when you think you're not changing lives, benjamin Hill, you really are changing lives.
Speaker 2:At the very least, you're affecting them. Benjamin Hill, you really are changing. At the very least, you're affecting them. You're helping them out. We all listen to the podcast and everything. You listen to the stories and everything that you bring. My question to you is the last couple of years, what has been your most memorable Because I know you also follow the changes of team names and things like that. For you, it has has been your favorite, like your personal favorite team name brand that you've seen so far.
Speaker 2:In like in more recent years yeah, more recent years or actually, you know what Change it to whenever.
Speaker 1:It's a good one. There's so many that I'm usually just so focused on covering them I often forget my own opinion on them. Like it's hard for me to kind of sometimes take a step back and be like oh, what do I?
Speaker 2:Because you're covering them, but you're also a fan of the sport.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, of course I mean that's the thing with all this. Even though I don't cover, even though I don't get to watch most baseball when I'm on the road, you know to watch most baseball when I'm on the road. Ironically, when I'm at a minor league ballpark I don't really get to watch most baseball. But yeah, I grew up a just gigantic baseball fan and didn't really know the minor leagues too much, but I liked the weirder nooks and crannies of baseball in general. So it kind of made sense that once this opened up I took it and ran with it, because I've always been just really into the oddities and absurdities of the game of baseball. But for the team names, I mean, yeah, there's been so many good ones. I mean, hey, just to name drop El Paso again.
Speaker 1:I remember when they had the like list of named finalists and Chihuahuas was one of them. Right now we don't think twice when we hear the name El Paso, chihuahuas, but 10 years ago, 11 years ago, it was part of what was then sort of a cliche with name the teams is that there'd be three or four choices and then one. That was just too crazy. The team wouldn't actually do. And I remember being like, haha, they have Chihuahuas on the list but they won't really do it. No one's expecting that. And then they did it and that was kind of like a moment of like whoa, minor league baseball is going there, minor league baseball is, like now, unafraid to have a team named the chihuahuas and of course we talk about it now and it doesn't even seem like that big a deal.
Speaker 1:But that one was one that made an impression on me and I always like that, that branding and the kind of underdog identity. Hartford yard goats is one I always just like you know aesthetically, just the way it looks, and I love that ballpark too in Hartford Dunkin' Donuts Park. So that's one that definitely jumped out. I mean, I think the pinnacle of sort of that school of minor league team names is Trash Pandas. Once you do Rocket City, trash Pandas that's kind of you know, hey, they're about space and I feel like Trash Pandas was like the final frontier, like there's. It's harder to go beyond trash pandas and I think since then really, we've seen maybe a slight kind of a more conservative view and team names since then. You know, they can still be pretty goofy, but I feel all those years where it was just like what are teams going to do next? I think it kind of hit the either the peak or the bottom, depending on your opinion, of that kind of team name you know, but yeah, it's so.
Speaker 1:this year we got what? Hub city, spartan burgers is new, columbus clingstones is new, I thought. I thought Rome emperors was a great one, because it it has like like a kind of serious and heavy feel when you hear the name Rome Emperors, but then it also has the more lighthearted minor league penguin branding. So I thought that was a good best of both worlds thing, and of course I like it when any time a team brands away from its parent club name, because that's just not very interesting 100% we are.
Speaker 2:I know for sure that I know I'm a fan of like having no name of a parent club on a minor league baseball team. And so question then obviously, like you says, like you know, like we, the pinnacle is trash, pandas, right Trash. And then you got pandas, like I mean, that's just as far as out, there, as as it goes. And and then some you know, last recent like two years, you've seen a little bit more seriousness to the actual team name. But let me ask you this In your opinion then, does that leave those quirky names more towards the alternate identities that they do one-offs for every year? Does that allow for the alternate identities to have its own space within minor league baseball now?
Speaker 1:I mean, I think you could look at it that way, but I don't think a team with an already kind of goofier cartoonish name has been discouraged from doing alternate identities because they're already kind of wacky, like the Akron Rubber Ducks.
Speaker 1:They're going to be the Rub the rubber ducks every day, but they're still have no problem with being any number of alternate identities. But I do think that, yes, that if you have a more um, conservative for lack of a better word identity than the alternate identities that are goofy, then there's a greater contrast or a way to stand out, at least in the local market, a little bit more. But in general, I think a team's approach to alternate identities doesn't have too much to do with what their primary identity is. It's just a way to, um, you know, draw attention to themselves, create excitement and, of course, sell merchandise, because, at the end of the day, this is a baseball's, a business.
Speaker 1:So, um, you know, I totally understand when fans don't like some of these things. But when they just say like, oh, this is just another money grab, I'm kind of like, well, I would say that the purpose of a business is to make money, money. These are not, like you know, 501c3 non-profit organizations. They're not, you know, just there for, uh, these are full for profit yeah, so yeah, I feel like go for it.
Speaker 1:And you know, just like anything else, like the market will decide. If you're doing too many of them or or they, they, they're not well received, then you'll do less, you know. But as long as fans like them, as long as fans buy the merchandise, as long as as there's a good energy in the ballpark when they do this kind of thing, why?
Speaker 2:not keep doing it? It certainly doesn't hurt anybody. Like you said, you're going on 20 years doing this. How have you seen the evolution of merchandising from when you started to right now, 2025?
Speaker 1:I mean it's been a lot. I mean one. You just we've kind of talked about it already with both team names and alternate identities 2005,. There weren't that many like goofy team names really. I mean you had your classic teams, you know, like the Toledo Mudhens or whatever Mudcats and things like that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but when you think of most of the, when you start rattling off like the real goofy names. Those all came about like in the time that I've been covering minor league baseball. You know your Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs and El Paso Chihuahuas and Pensacola Blue Wahoos and Rocket City Trash Pandas and on and on Hartford Yardgoats, akron Rubber Ducks, jacksonville Jumbo Shrimp. So that whole kind of revolution for lack of a better word in terms of the teams really going out of their way to establish a distinct identity which is a huge part of their marketing and branding. That's happened in the two decades, not to mention the alternate identities, which were literally not a thing when I started, and so now, in addition to perhaps having a more unique standalone primary identity, now you have all these other ways to market yourself through the alternate identities as well. So none of those things existed at the time. But you can also make an argument that in certain ways, minor league baseball was weirder and wackier then, though, like 20 years ago, just in terms of the day to day atmosphere, the day-to-day promotions.
Speaker 1:I feel like teams did a lot more like off-the-cuff, goofy stuff that now it's a more you know controlled environment and it's run through mlb and you know more approvals are needed and, um, it's just a bit different in that regard as well, where it used to just be like teams would just do the most nonsensical promos all the time just to get some attention to themselves, and it's not as Wild West out there as it was when I first started. I mean, I always tell the story like the first ballpark I ever visited I was still part-time was Altoona because they were doing Awful Night, and that was the kind of energy I was really attracted to in minor league baseball, just like something so stupid, like a team just is doing a promotion where they're going to make everything quote as awful as possible. You know some teams still do that kind of stuff and I always celebrate it whenever I can because I like that kind of more. Anything goes. Why the heck not kind of energy, in addition to the national initiatives and larger season-long campaigns and everything like that.
Speaker 3:I think there's a place for everything. Oh yeah, on that same note, like, have you noticed that I've only been going to minor league games for about 10 years, but I haven't? I never started paying attention to the food until I moved to Las Vegas? Shout out to Chef Gary for like teaching me what how great foods in minor league could be. Have you noticed this shift since you started, from like how foods used to be to how they are now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean definitely. I think well one. A lot of it has to do with ballparks. You know, in the 90s and throughout the first part of the 21st century there were a lot of new ballparks and that means a lot of different things, but new ballparks often had much more kitchen space. So I think you know a lot of older ballparks and the cliche of just a hot dog, hamburger, pretzels, popcorn and a beer. Some of that might have been due to lack of creativity, but a lot of it was because these old ballparks if you're playing in some restrictive ballpark built in 1936, you're only going to have so much space to make food. So I think the sort of wave of new ballparks created the opportunity to be more creative in the kitchen.
Speaker 1:And then teams, especially with the rise of the internet and social media, saw the value in getting more creative with their food.
Speaker 1:Um, even if it might not sell a ton.
Speaker 1:The more creative items not might not sell a ton in the ballpark. They were really good marketing to be like you can, um, you know, get this crazy food item at this place or that place. Um, and then, as we saw, like um, talking about alternate identities obviously the biggest sub genre of minor league teams. Alternate identities are food related alternate identities and so that's because, you know, teams like to celebrate what's unique about their market, about their region, and food is always going to be in the conversation when it comes to what makes the place unique. So I think teams have more and more leaned into making sure they have at their ballpark things that are unique or local to their area. I think one aspect of the food that kind of peaked and we don't see as much is just the crazy large you know go viral on social media like it's like, you know, the quadruple bypass burger. It's four patties and cheese and egg and topped with a large order of fries I feel like that stuff kind of peaked maybe 10 or 12 years ago because it would go viral.
Speaker 1:But then, yeah, then it'd be expensive and fans wouldn't really buy it too much and that didn't have a local or regional tie, so it kind of was like okay when you go to these ballparks, do you collect something for yourself? I don't. I get asked that a lot. If I had known when I started this that I would be doing it this long, I would have liked to have come up with something small. Um, but like I was saying earlier, by the time I kind of figured out that this was actually my job.
Speaker 1:I was so deep into it I hadn't really thought that much ahead. Also, I live in New York city and especially now you're very restricted. Yeah, I'm in a one bedroom apartment with my wife and four-year-old and we're trying to figure out our next move, but it's tough to like add too much to to it. So I have packed in my closets I need to go through it An amazing array of just minor league memorabilia, but almost none of it did I seek out.
Speaker 1:You know it's more just like a team that gave this to me or it just happened to be something tucked in my notebook at the end of the night, and so I love having all this random stuff. But you know, I have drawers of bobbleheads I need to either get rid of or find a space for. I just I'm in max capacity. But to answer your question, since I had a kid my son Harry now when I go to a ballpark I buy him a T-shirt and that's been fun for me. That's the first time in my career that I've had kind of like a that kind of thing, and so sometimes they don't have it in his size and obviously he's always growing. But um, I've gotten him a bunch of t-shirts over the last several years and you know we keep them and the plan is to make him into a quilt oh, that's cool I hope Jill takes the lead on that.
Speaker 1:That's the kind of thing I think is a good idea and then make no proactive effort to actually whatsoever yeah, but um, I love that idea. So he's and you know I take pride just dropping him off at school, just kind of like yep, he's the only kid here in this brooklyn 3k program with a fort wayne tin cap shirt obviously you've been doing it for, like I said, we've been talking about it.
Speaker 2:You, you know, your tenure with baseball is have you what's the one memorable team that's no longer around? That you were like when you went and it's like it's no longer around.
Speaker 1:Quite a lot and I miss most of them. One I only went to once, but I loved it, was Bakersfield blaze. It's because from a realistic um, you know, amenity, uh, stadium facility amenity standpoint, it really shouldn't have been hosting minor league baseball as long as it did. Um, but I've always liked those kind of places. The old kind of beat up places might not have big crowds but to me the fans who show up at those places are always like the weirdos which I mean in the best way.
Speaker 1:As a writer I'm always looking for like interesting people. And so I think about that ballpark. And you know, literally having a sun delay in the beginning of the game because the ballpark was built facing the sun, being in the press box with like full you know shades that were pulled all the way down because people couldn't even look out onto the field. You know, I just love that kind of goofy stuff. And you know, was it their uh program vendor, this guy named froggy, with this real deep voice selling programs, um, and on and on. Just I like the more ramshackle places, that. And then those are the places that once they're gone you're like it's never coming back, at least not at this ballpark.
Speaker 1:You know, at least affiliated ball yeah, um so places like that, places like jamestown, you know kind of same thing. Jammers yeah, the jammers just a uh, you know a little ballpark, 80 years old in a small new york town. I always felt sad saying goodbye to, saying hello and goodbye to places like that, knowing that that they wouldn't be part of the landscape anymore.
Speaker 2:I still got my Jamestown Jammers dad hat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing logo.
Speaker 2:Absolutely amazing. Such a good logo. You would like that one actually.
Speaker 3:Val Speaking of. I'm still mourning, though, I guess, like loss or disappearance of the baby cakes. That was one I will forever regret not being able to go to. Yeah, that was an interesting one.
Speaker 1:New Orleans is a huge market but a tough minor league baseball market. Think of everything New Orleans has going on. It's tough for a minor league team to stand out within that, especially when your ballpark is in a neighboring suburb not near any of the typical New Orleans action. So I only got to go there once and they were still the Zephyrs when I went. I never got to go to a game in the short-lived baby cakes era.
Speaker 2:Just because, like you said, you have so many teams that you have to go visit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's another thing, is teams are like when are you coming back?
Speaker 1:again, or I'll be emailing a team about something. They're like hey, you should come by this year. And then I'm like, yeah, you're right, it's only been eight years, but also probably not, because there's just so many other places to get to. It's wild. There's certain teams that it's been over a decade now and I'm just I can't believe I've been doing it long enough to have teams that I've gone a decade without visiting.
Speaker 3:When you are visiting other stadiums and you've got the designated eaters, is there like do you choose the foods? Is it based off like bestsellers, new items, that viral item, or do you kind of just let like the fans choose?
Speaker 1:And it's something that they've recommended, especially if it's been at a ballpark you've never been to, I'd say. Like every aspect of my job, it's a case by case basis. You know, pretty much all these different elements that I do with these ballpark visits are ones I kind of made up and then had to figure out, and you know teams are different from place to place. So generally, I'll just tell a team like and I'll have a designated eater, someone who will sample the food. And some teams are well aware of the concept and they're psyched for it, and they, you know, give us an empty suite and have the food and beverage person like bring a gigantic platter. Sometimes teams are just kind of like, yeah, cool, have fun, and then me and the designated eater just wander around, and you know I never want to act like a diva. There's sometimes, though, when I'm waiting in line with my designated eater being like really, you're going to make Ben's business.
Speaker 1:Designated eater, late in line, come on, but yeah, late in line, come on, um, but uh, yeah. So it really runs the gamut from just us on our own to like vip food spread, um, but what? No matter what the context is, it's always like I want to highlight what's the most unique and or regional, and so if the designated eater is familiar with the place, I'm very open to their feedback. But if a designated eater just familiar with the place, I'm very open to their feedback. But if a designated eater just says, oh, I like ketchup. You know hot dog with ketchup and that's it, it's just like no, then you're not really going to be the designated eater.
Speaker 2:We need someone to highlight something unique.
Speaker 1:You need to try the uniqueness of the place. Yeah, so, and almost every team. Obviously, some are much better than others, but almost every team has at least two or three items that are, like, unique to them or, if not totally unique to them, different enough that you can highlight it. Um so, that but that's, that's the, that's the underlying premise, no matter how it shakes out, is what's the most unique thing we can get. And get two or three things, that's really it.
Speaker 1:You know, sometimes it's more, but I don't have the bandwidth to highlight 11 things on a menu in the course of everything else going on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got you gotta. You gotta be specific about what you need and what you want you know to highlight within your article and everything.
Speaker 3:Whenever you go to hub. As a Rangers fan I'm so excited for the hub city spartan burgers I'm so I haven't done research but I cannot wait to see, like I I'm assuming they're gonna have specialty burgers, different kinds of unique burgers. I'm so excited to see that and hopefully you know like they do have that and so I can imagine definitely have burgers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that talking you have at this point. Like I mean, if you don't yeah, I mean I remember talking to their gm, uh, tyson jeffers. He was previously in hudson valley and he was just saying that like you know, pressure's on, like you can't pick this name and call yourself the spartan burgers and not have like the best ball, best ballpark burger around. So we'll see if they live up to it. What, what?
Speaker 2:did I tell you?
Speaker 3:There you go.
Speaker 2:I told you she showed up. So, Ben, is there anything that we haven't asked you at all? I mean, I know we ask you a lot of questions, I mean not any one specific thing I can think of. I mean, obviously there's plenty of things that we can talk about.
Speaker 1:We could be here for two hours, yeah, a million things you could theoretically talk about, but it seems like we've hit a lot.
Speaker 2:I love it. When you do go to Spartan burger, let me know I am here in the Durham. You know Raleigh Durham area. So I mean you. You mentioned Durham and I'm like that's right, let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was great. It was great to get. I was in Durham last year for the first time in years and what a beautiful ballpark. I mean I knew that already, but just to have that reinforced and be back after a long absence like such a gorgeous ballpark.
Speaker 2:Are you ready, my friend? Sure, all right. So this one is the one that we ask everybody. Okay, so you're not working, you're going. You're in New York, you're going to go to a ballpark.
Speaker 1:What is your food?
Speaker 3:and your drink of choice.
Speaker 1:Well, again, for me the whole reason the designated eater concept started was because I got diagnosed with celiac disease. So a lot of my own ballpark options are lesser. But even if I hadn't been diagnosed, nachos are going to be way up there anyway, and now they're even more elevated in my ballpark cuisine choices. So I would say good ballpark nachos, I mean ones with more fresh ingredients. You know the real bottom of the barrel nachos have their place. But it's a little frustrating when you get nachos and it's just like a dollop of cheese and a little plastic container. But uh, no, good nachos for sure. Of course I appreciate when teams have a you know, gluten-free hamburger, hot dog buns, um drink. You know, if I'm just there as a fan, yeah, like like a drink. You know, sometimes I'm at these ballparks and I'm like I just want to sit in the stands and drink and I never can on these road trips.
Speaker 1:So because you're representing, you know, minor league baseball at that point yeah yeah, so you know, I don't, I can't really do many beers but a cider or a seltzer. So yeah, give me a nachos and a seltzer.
Speaker 2:Let's go with that I like it uh last song that you, that you downloaded.
Speaker 1:Last song that you downloaded. I don't really download many songs. I buy a lot of records. I can't remember what I downloaded. Wait, you say you buy records now. Oh, constantly, yeah, I have like many, many.
Speaker 2:What's the last one you purchased?
Speaker 1:The last one I purchased was actually my son Harry has gotten into like Beethoven and classical music, so I've got them, just like at a book sale in a church I got them a Beethoven, Leonard Bernstein, directing Beethoven's seventh symphony. Seventh symphony, I believe, was actually the last record I bought. But yeah, I buy a lot of records. I used to buy, go to a lot of record stores on my road trips but I ended up with so many records that I just You're like you're going to have to take a break.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I could go on and on about music. I don't know I was listening to a Bismarck-y record I got just yesterday From Bismarck Markie to Beethoven. So wide range, million other things. Yeah, I've got too many records, too many CDs. I got a six disc changer in my Subaru, oh my God, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a physical media guy. I remember I used to have one and then they broke into my car and they stole it. I'm like, oh, those were the days with my cd book. You know, opening up the cd book and going through that, oh yeah case logic yes, exactly. Have you ever re-gifted a gift?
Speaker 1:ah, yeah I'm sure I have, I mean, and some of it, some of it is definitely like you know, I'm at a minor league ballpark and a team's just like, hey, here, have a hat, and I'm like, cool, thanks, but I don't need another hat, and then I give it to a friend or a family member who might. I do a lot of regifting of baseball things in particular.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not going to. I'm not regifting my hats. I tell you that I have well over 600 of them and I'm, nope, not getting rid of the hats.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've met a lot of people like you through this job. The hat obsessives.
Speaker 2:You met Patrick Larson, one of our good friends?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Patrick Larson, Eric the Peanut Guy show. Before the show co-host Tyler Maughanler, mon, all these guys for me. I'm someone who just usually has like five or six hats and I'll just choose one to wear. I'll just choose one to wear until it just gets too beat up to wear, and then I'll just look in the closet whatever small stack I have and pick another one uh, all right.
Speaker 2:What was your favorite tv show growing up?
Speaker 1:I mean changed all the time. I guess. Uh, I mean the all-timer. I was in fifth grade when the simpsons debuted, so I mean I have to go with that. Um, simpsons from fifth grade all the way through college was just a holy grail show. Obsessed about it so yeah, why not? Simpsons, I mean isotopes, right yeah. And there you. Simpsons, I mean isotopes, right yeah. And there you go, the Miley time with the isotopes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there, it is All right If you could be any fictional character in a movie or TV show who would it be?
Speaker 1:Oh man.
Speaker 3:Fictional character movie or TV show.
Speaker 1:Hmm fictional character movie or tv show, maybe ishmael and moby dick, so I could get a front row seat as captain ahab goes after the white whale. That would be cool.
Speaker 2:I liked it I like this scary at the same time, but I like it.
Speaker 1:That's scary, it's scary, but you know, if you're gonna answer a question like that, you might as well go in for some adventure. I've been real into nautical tales in general recently and real-life sailing stories. I don't know anything about boats, but I love the sailing tales. They're really interesting.
Speaker 2:All right, on that same note of you characters, if you could be in any movie besides what we did.
Speaker 3:Who would? What would it be in a movie?
Speaker 1:man. Why is that so hard for me to answer? I guess I never really thought about me being in a movie. Then all my favorite movies, I think of the characters and I'm like I really wouldn't want to be in that situation, Like I don't really want to be with Jack Nicholson at the overlook hotel.
Speaker 3:You know, that kind of thing. Such a good movie, though, yeah.
Speaker 1:But those are kind of my favorites.
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'd like to hang out with.
Speaker 2:Method man and Red man in how High, wow, that's an old school right there.
Speaker 1:That was my favorite movie for a number of years. Still an all-time comedy, overlooked for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're around the same age you and me, and yeah, good movie. All right, a couple more here, for sure. Yeah, we're around the same age you and me, and yeah, Good movie, All right, a couple more here, and then I'll let you go. If you could work at a zoo, okay, which animal would you want to work with? Hmm?
Speaker 1:I don't know. Part of me wants to say a real smart animal, but then I'd probably start to feel bad that it was in captivity. Yeah, so maybe a real smart animal, but then I'd probably start to feel bad that it was in captivity. So maybe a real interesting one like a platypus? Really, get to know a platypus, because those are weird, they're like eggs, they're mammals, they're all strange.
Speaker 3:I'd like to learn about something that's very true.
Speaker 1:I'd like to learn about something that seems almost alien. You know, give me a sense of greater sense of appreciation for the animal kingdom.
Speaker 2:Right, a platypus. I like it All right, last one.
Speaker 1:Where was it? There it is. What was your first job? First job, first real job, was washing dishes at a retirement home. Did that for from sophomore year and then all the way through, like summer breaks and holiday breaks and my first couple years of college. I loved it. It was called utility. We were washing dishes, but you know, we were back back in workers in the kitchen with utility crew. We're cool blue uniforms. Yeah, I loved it. I still sometimes think that I'd like to have a job like that again, just like five hours a week, just to like do it dude, dude work. That just like starts at a certain time, ends at a certain time and it's all done with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I kind of romanticize it. I kind of liked it.
Speaker 2:But thank you so much for doing this. This is a lot of fun. Where can people find you? On the social. See, we're going to push you to do more social now.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'll get the blue sky eventually. I'm still on Twitter or X at Ben's Biz, instagram, the Ben's Biz. I've got my newsletter, the Baseball Traveler, which used to be the Ben's Biz Beat. Articles on MLBcom, milbcom the weekly show before the show podcast. I can find you pretty much anywhere. I articles on mlbcom, milbcom the weekly show before the show podcast.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of all we can find you pretty much anywhere.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm around. If you Google my name and minor league baseball or Ben's base and minor league baseball or whatever, you'll find something or other. Often I'm writing a story and I'm trying to find some information to verify something, and then I find my own stuff and I'm like I've been doing this too long. I just have to use myself as a source now.
Speaker 2:There you go. We got a couple of people that can help you out with that, so you know, give us a call, we'll let you know. All right Sounds good.
Speaker 2:All right, man. Thank you so much for doing this Again and for everybody. Make sure that you guys are going on YouTube channels for both Val and I, our channels. We are actually. You're still on Blue Sky, aren't you, Val? Or did you close that one and you didn't do it? It's not really picking up, but we are on Twitter. We are on TikTok and on threads as well, so make sure you guys catch us there. We will see you guys next week. Until then, support the minor leagues.
